(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[9000]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]GN[European Championship 2015 - Semifinals, (b) Ilya Shikshin vs. (w) Ali Jabarin]PW[Ali Jabarin]PB[이리야쉭시나..]WR[1단]BR[1단]DT[2015-08-01]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[snowy [1k]: there is egc gamu? o_OMuttley [3k]: semifinal I thinkMuttley [3k]: Ilya Shikshin vs. Ali JabarinEGC2015a [-]: hiEGC2015a [-]: yes its semifinal but we waitingfor playersMuttley [3k]: hi EGC, ready to start soon?EGC2015a [-]: is nigiriMuttley [3k]: ah thank youEGC2015a [-]: round starEGC2015a [-]: round start officialy at 9:30snowy [1k]: O_OMuttley [3k]: I'll announce now so people can joinEGC2015a [-]: only fan hui is in the roomsnowy [1k]: huwa!!snowy [1k]: tomorrow too? i will miss it T.TEGC2015a [-]: and now Ilja hereEGC2015a [-]: yes tomorrow is final at 9:30Muttley [3k]: what is the time there now?Muttley [3k]: presumably 9.20EGC2015a [-]: yesEGC2015a [-]: 9:20Muttley [3k]: Thank you :)snowy [1k]: final! wah... can i cancel my plan.... lolMikko88888: EGC, are you going to insert the nigiri stones on the board? :PLycheeDole [10k]: LolEGC2015a [-]: heh, to much wark EGC2015a [-]: *workEGC2015a [-]: and players is fasterMikko88888: just insert some to make us happy :D not the real count :PLice [4d]: can someone explain to me how come the playoff started so soon and not with the top 8 europeans in the main tournament?snowy [1k]: lolsnowy [1k]: use edit tool to put down b/w stonesMikko88888: yes :DMikko88888: egc, if you do, you are the coolest scriber ever :-)LycheeDole [10k]: Just imagine them instead guysMinjhou [5k?]: so far, perfect moveswade [5d]: i guess they want the second week to be like an "open tournament where any1 can play each othersnowy [1k]: it's gonna be funneh....Lice [4d]: ye but if this tournament determains the european championship it makes no sense that a guy with two loses got to enter while a guy with no loses didn't..snowy [1k]: in the schedule, what games are in round 6-10 ?Mikko88888: main tournament rounds 6-10darkronin [2k?]: Who is the guy with no losses who didn't?snowy [1k]: what is main tournament ?Mikko88888: it's the main tournament of the european go congress. Everybody who is there can attend it. no need to be european.LycheeDole [10k]: A go player with no losses? Sounds strongPOB: lolPOB: you're funnysnowy [1k]: oh will they scribe those too?Mikko88888: they don't want to give the european championship to asian players, so they have the championship tournament during the weekend :Pdarkronin [2k?]: Guys let's focus on the gameMinjhou [5k?]: what do you think about last move darkronin?Mikko88888: yes. they will scribe the main tournament games too :-)snowy [1k]: white is aheadgucunpyo [4k]: ali jabarin's rank?POB: 1pMinjhou [5k?]: 6.5 ahead, if my count is rightdarkronin [2k?]: Btw, you guys who can see the players colors, who is white?Mikko88888: darkronin, there will be nigiriMikko88888: egc will lay the nigiri stones on the board soon :PLycheeDole [10k]: White privilege 6.5Minjhou [5k?]: I'm bad at nigiri, how can I improve?darkronin [2k?]: Aww >.<IraTrask [3k]: what is nigiri?TurtleDove [5k]: Ali played so well yesterday. I wonder if he can handle Ilyaofbusy [-]: komi is 7.5 says "rules"Lice [4d]: lukas kremer had no losesCool [1k]: have video?Minjhou [5k?]: that's why I'm not a dan, but a mere kyuLice [4d]: breakfast had two losesMinjhou [5k?]: I can't even count this board :PSyxok [2d]: lukas wasnt in the super group(top 24 euros)darkronin [2k?]: It's when the players guess the number of stones to decide who takes black or whiteLice [4d]: he started with the same points as everyone in there didn't he?Lice [4d]: yep, he didSyxok [2d]: if you check his games you will notice he played mainly outsidersSyxok [2d]: while the super group played only each otherLice [4d]: you can check them and see that he didn'tSyxok [2d]: four outa five games were against asiansSyxok [2d]: and the last game was against non super group euro playerLice [4d]: what do you mean by outsiders?Syxok [2d]: chine/korea/japan/usagangsta: only tow games today ?gangsta: two*Mikko88888: only the semifinal gamesyaneth [6k]: that are two torunaments. it's the main tournament of the egc and the european championship with only 24 contestants who can enter the main tournament after they don't play the european championship anymore. lukas "just" plays the main tournament.Lice [4d]: so these 24 players had different pairings? only against themselves?snowy [1k]: they nigiri so long...........POB: lukas was not in the top players tournament, he was in the main tournament and until this round had no lossesSyxok [2d]: yea liceyaneth [6k]: he lost yesterday unfortunatelyMikko88888: snowy, probably takes forever to count the stonesLice [4d]: ok, thxSyxok [2d]: you might want to read this http://egc2015.cz/rules/championshipLice [4d]: that explains things i guess, but a bit sillyPOB: not silly, the top players are chosen from their EGF rankPOB: ELOMinjhou [5k?]: ELO?Syxok [2d]: well we dont want someone to drop out of playoffs since he played korean 8dchansiukit [1k]: when will the game start?Mikko88888: I think the format for european championship is good enough. cannot really complain :-)snowy [1k]:  because in main tournament there are non european players......yaneth [6k]: not ELO, but GoR ;)kmr [1d]: EGF rating dont put stones on boardTurtleDove [5k]: different to last year but seems to be workinh okMinjhou [5k?]: GoR?POB: GoR, yes, sorryLycheeDole [10k]: Good band, ELOPOB: http://europeangodatabase.eu/Laman [2k]: impatient spectators can watch http://egc2015.cz/streamLycheeDole [10k]: Thanks laman];B[pd]C[Minjhou [5k?]: nice move!POB: scribe, who is black?snowy [1k]: wh0 what when where ?snowy [1k]: how ?Mikko88888: ilya blackAnnie [-]: Muttley who should I watch D:TurtleDove [5k]: Ilya only one at the board so I guess he playedAnnie [-]: IIya isnt pro yet?POB: illya is prodarkronin [2k?]: Yes he isMinjhou [5k?]: yes, he'sMuttley [3k]: I'd say this onesnowy [1k]: b r4 next !EGC2015a [-]: Ali still missingMuttley [3k]: Ilya and Ali will fightMuttley [3k]: once Ali gets out of bedReym [-]: where are egc2015c and d?Minjhou [5k?]: is this a pro-promoter tournament? will Iiya be 2P if he wins?kmr [1d]: i doubtsnowy [1k]: it's egc right ?Muttley [3k]: These are semi-finals, so two games- don't know if play offs start later or are being relayedEGC2015a [-]: egc c and d will transmiting weekend tournamentLycheeDole [10k]: I hope notEGC2015a [-]: and 1 round is planning at 10:00snowy [1k]: but this will add on to egf rating or something ?Muttley [3k]: there you go, to comeReym [-]: ah cool, thanksAnnie [-]: It would take alot of games to be promoted to 2p no?IraTrask [3k]: noMuttley [3k]: Is Ali staying in the hotel?Muttley [3k]: someone needs to bang on his doorMinjhou [5k?]: I'm going to play 0ad, play0ad.comflobby [-]: only 2 games today?Jermelle [-]: That'd be funny if he was still asleep.POB: only 4 players left :)snowy [1k]: egc...is this format the same as egc last year ?Jermelle [-]: "I feel like I'm forgetting something important"POB: so 2 gamesEGC2015a [-]: other 2 games start laterAnnie [-]: Maybe he got stuck in the restroomMuttley [3k]: Its not impossible, I think he got a start time wrong in another relay I saw a while agoLycheeDole [10k]: Oh no...IraTrask [3k]: is this phsycological warfare?Annie [-]: Probablysnowy [1k]: lol forgottenMuttley [3k]: Yeah, boring Ilya Muttley [3k]: *arrives ... * plays r17Annie [-]: "Ill give him more time than me so its even.."LycheeDole [10k]: He'll be notified by someone right if that's the casesnowy [1k]: so they have to wait...not run the clock on a specific time ?Muttley [3k]: his clock should be tickingEGC2015a [-]: yes clock is tickingsnowy [1k]: how did he become white Muttley [3k]: nigiriLycheeDole [10k]: Good point snowyHashirama [1k]: same way michael jackson became whiteAnnie [-]: just wanted you to know q16 winning moveMuttley [3k]: they did the nigiri with Ilys present I guesssnowy [1k]: lolEGC2015a [-]: refereesnowy [1k]: ohEGC2015a [-]: did nigiriAnnie [-]: how does that work D:<Tonight [3k?]: So ali is missing?EGC2015a [-]: yesLycheeDole [10k]: Mj way would be changing colors in midgamedarkronin [2k?]: If i were ali I'd protest, he can nigiri much bettersnowy [1k]: no one asking ransom yet?EGC2015a [-]: Ali is hereIraTrask [3k]: Nigiri = making sushi?Muttley [3k]: referee says "How many stones?"Muttley [3k]: deciding who takes white or black - nigiriPOB: thank god the egf paid the ransomsnowy [1k]: GGsnowy [1k]: b++++++++++++++++++++++Muttley [3k]: Thank you EGC, enjoy the relayAnnie [-]: thank you EGC2015a [-]: you toogucunpyo [4k]: ali cameEGC2015a [-]: i got lot of redbuls to stay alert :-PMuttley [3k]: hehesophtpaw [3k]: what is happening here?Muttley [3k]: stick at two :)];W[dd]C[snowy [1k]: i need to get kgs mobile for tomorrow! >.>Annie [-]: let us know when you hear the loud clackingLycheeDole [10k]: Be careul with the red bulls :pEGC2015a [-]: yMuttley [3k]: ok, we're offsnowy [1k]: they shud have iphone app];B[qp]C[obiwan [2k]: d3obiwan [2k]: best by testsophtpaw [3k]: who is playing?snowy [1k]: am getting coffee and snack : )Muttley [3k]: white: Ali Jabarinsophtpaw [3k]: just had breakfastMuttley [3k]: black: Ilya Shikshinsophtpaw [3k]: who is ali? ilya is roln, yes?snowy [1k]: ali lost to who so far ?];W[dp];B[fq]C[Jermelle [-]: ali hasn't played on kgs in a while I thinkMuttley [3k]: Ali played as OohAah, and is now Activ, I thinksnowy [1k]: i think ali is 'oohaah' somethingsophtpaw [3k]: jabarin makes me think of basketball playerEGC2015a [-]: http://egc2015.cz/results/mainwallsnowy [1k]: or boxerEGC2015a [-]: http://egc2015.cz/results/main/playoffsLice [4d]: ali does play here :Pgucunpyo [4k]: shikshin loves small chinese openingobiwan [2k]: w should pincer to avoid chinese variationsEGC2015a [-]: stream: http://egc2015.cz/results/main/playoffssophtpaw [3k]: what is the purse they're playing for?Annie [-]: I demand to see your redbull!];W[cn]C[snowy [1k]: http://egc2015.cz/stream];B[lq]C[gucunpyo [4k]: is the main time 150 min?sophtpaw [3k]: *purse-moneysnowy [1k]: youtube also have kgs board!!!Mikko88888: this opening is so much easier for black, no wonder he plays so fastsophtpaw [3k]: winner takes home £1.5 million?Mikko88888: easier is not the same as better thoughAnnie [-]: Shikshin looks seriously boredEGC2015a [-]: yes kgs have kgs board, shows time on clock, and shows playersdarkronin [2k?]: I'm happy it's microsnowy [1k]: he waited after all.... x.xEGC2015a [-]: *youtubesnowy [1k]: good : ) thxobiwan [2k]: r14 only moveMikko88888: r14 kyu movegucunpyo [4k]: ali is handsomeTurtleDove [5k]: m3 seems strangeIraTrask [3k]: R10snowy [1k]: ali? i prefer ilya : )Annie [-]: @EGC when relaying is it prefered to use a players side or are you required to?TheThe [4k]: w+resobiwan [2k]: m3 completes a fuseki with a name, it couldnt be less strangeTheThe [4k]: sorry, bresflos [1k]: So what is the next move ?TheThe [4k]: sorry, b+resVPP79 [2k]: Ага. что-то белый как-то зависTheThe [4k]: (not used to Ilya as black)EGC2015a [-]: i relaying from Ilja positionflobby [-]: ilya and fan in the final i guessLice [4d]: lol flobby you nabAnnie [-]: o17 or r10 nextsnowy [1k]: ilya vs fan!! dam o/];W[qf]C[snowy [1k]: egc.... i hope youtube setup is like this for the finals tomorrow ^ ^ if i dont get kgsobiwan [2k]: looks like r14 not a kyu move afterall];B[qi]C[Lice [4d]: who ever said it's a kyu move?TurtleDove [5k]: kyu sometimes make good moves :P];W[nc];B[pf];W[pg];B[of];W[qd]C[Tonight [3k?]: R14 isnt kyu move];B[qc];W[qe];B[pc];W[og]C[Lice [4d]: ali wants to keep the fuseki complicatedlamer [3d?]: josekiAnnie [-]: r14 was chosen?TheThe [4k]: ilya will blitz thatAnnie [-]: close enoughsnowy [1k]: ilya need some redbullCool [1k]: Илья ночью обыгрывал всех ботов))];B[mf]C[TheThe [4k]: indeed];W[pe]C[IraTrask [3k]: yay!!!];B[oe]C[darkronin [2k?]: Noo];W[qh];B[pi];W[od]C[TheThe [4k]: wowHashirama [1k]: :O];B[md]C[VPP79 [2k]: интересное началоIraTrask [3k]: this is gangsta godarkronin [2k?]: I would be like, "omg omg omg" at this pointobiwan [2k]: they play so fast for such long time settingssnowy [1k]: for who ? loldarkronin [2k?]: Table shape winssnowy [1k]: ilya left~~~~~~~~~powerchord [8k]: @obiwan: i think its all prepared for game, maybepowerchord [8k]: so they can play fast];W[ob]C[Mikko88888: what is this. omg lolkmr [1d]: this corner looks hugedarkronin [2k?]: Q18Annie [-]: corner isnt dead yet thoughWeishenme [4d]: n17 Mikko88888: ilya went to check the joseki in toilet?Hashirama [1k]: How do you know Annie?!EGC2015a [-]: both playersleft so i will go too :-P Xylol [4k]: Lice, why should he do that?Annie [-]: about a 24p cornerdarkronin [2k?]: Cmon at least 1£ :-)powerchord [8k]: maybe the players need a strong cup of coffe :-)Mikko88888: whose corner is that? black or whites? :PTheThe [4k]: ilya doesn't do joseki which is blanced, he kills VPP79 [2k]: вообще все ушли ))LycheeDole [10k]: People looking at the board as if in a museumpowerchord [8k]: lolTurtleDove [5k]: there has been some creative table-arranging overnightEGC2015a [-]: ilja is backMikko88888: yeyGoMaster [2d]: from checking the joseki at the toilett ? :P snowy [1k]: lolchansiukit [1k]: will black abandon the corner?Mikko88888: you would be surprised if you knew what ppl write in toilet wallsLycheeDole [10k]: Ilya was herepowerchord [8k]: thanks for this relay EGC2015a, great to follow this event hereletoII [5k]: s18 maybe ?snowy [1k]: i'm in asia but i luv egc lolEGC2015a [-]: npMikko88888: Q18 the only move :PIdoc [2d]: q18 n18 s18 r19EGC2015a [-]: its good feeling to relay game over the globe :-DletoII [5k]: but q18 s17 and ?ubique [3d]: Anyone know what happened to Taranu and Pop? Couldn't help noticing neither one played round 5 in the main tournament after not making it to the finals.Mikko88888: q18 s17 s18 snowy [1k]: this is crazy start T.TletoII [5k]: can't see who wins the race :)EGC2015a [-]: they both drop from the main tournamentCBlue [?]: well thanks for relaying it upstairs at least, so i can stay in bed to watch it ~~EGC2015a [-]: because they didnt staying in next week,so they didint want play 5 roundMuttley [3k]: lol Cblue :)Idoc [2d]: i think b already dead in cornerNightShift [6d]: shame, catalin is fun to watchXylol [4k]: EGC, could you move the flaggs the next time both leave the tableXylol [4k]: a bit more to the edge to see the board betterfyn [4k]: q18 s17 s18 s16 t18 looks aliveubique [3d]: Oh, that's unfortunate.EGC2015a [-]: okXylol [4k]: thank you alotKryptos: what is the webaddress of the stream?phx [7k?]: thnx really ^^Laman [2k]: egc2015.cz/streamdarkronin [2k?]: Lol the clock inset in the stream's lower right adds so much tension, like a bomb to go off XDEGC2015a [-]: and EGC2015c is weekend also];B[pb]C[Idoc [2d]: n18Xylol [4k]: NightShift, why so?darkronin [2k?]: :D darkronin [2k?]: I guessed!!!1IraTrask [3k]: O16snowy [1k]: egc can u put a picture frame of their inspiration on the table...xerox27 [3k]: o16kostuek [?]: this looks doubtful for w POB: o16 Lice [4d]: this looks like a joseki played by pros a few times alreadyEGC2015a [-]: Ali is hard counting in head, looking at the cornerkostuek [?]: yeah, better know this josekiLycheeDole [10k]: Ilya is almost moving as if in a real fight xDsnowy [1k]: crazy ^ ^weiland [1d?]: How about m17?darkered: lol, somebody already posted it on josekipediaEGC2015a [-]: lolwefawfsadf: what is the main prize for winning European Championship?TurtleDove [5k]: glorykmr [1d]: 100 honour pointskostuek [?]: 1000 cat videos on youtubesnowy [1k]: kgs luvEGC2015a [-]: dont know how much money they gotLice [4d]: looks like in the only pro game with o17, b answered with n17 rather with q18Lice [4d]: sry, the only pro game with p18*Lice [4d]: so white might be able to punish thisCBlue [?]: mh, if w wants to avoid b enclosing the right side group, he needs to play n18..?Lice [4d]: n18? O.OIdoc [2d]: thats what i thought yesdarkronin [2k?]: N18 for three in a row!Naphthalin [6k?]: how often does it happens that the play in the corner is not joseki in these kind of games?Idoc [2d]: can someone say why n18 is not good here?Naphthalin [6k?]: did ilya think of an unique sequence?Lice [4d]: i doubtwefawfsadf: Naphthalin: quite oftenuolhdf: o16 ?Mikko88888: lice, what is the pro game?Lice [4d]: two korean girls from 2012Hashirama [1k]: oh i know that game!CBlue [?]: ah not a game from baduktv's famous series "senior vs girl"..Naphthalin [6k?]: that sounds like a completely different video to be honesNaphthalin [6k?]: tIdoc [2d]: lolwefawfsadf: Jabarin looks like he's just dreamingsnowy [1k]: went to the kitchen and back and still no moviesnowy [1k]: move*manofearth [?]: freudian typoNaphthalin [6k?]: p17 doesn't work?riskybabe [4k]: if 150 min. he has still plenty of timeXylol [4k]: so whats about joseki databases on the phone, is ist already an issue in the go world?riskybabe [4k]: one more coffee aliNaphthalin [6k?]: at least in the main tournament of EGC there was no mention of eletronic deviceswefawfsadf: having a joseki database in your phone will help you at kyu level mostlyXylol [4k]: wefawsdfsdf you got the pointwefawfsadf: in top level there's not really much use of a databaseTurtleDove [5k]: if Ali doesn't see a way to kill r17, he might tenukiNaphthalin [6k?]: and quite many people used them to record gamessnowy [1k]: i read a chess player who cheated with that on his phoneXylol [4k]: i think some 9p in the restroom could be a good help tooMikko88888: wefa, don't be silly. of course databases are usefulAdin [1k]: a joseki database would help at any levelwefawfsadf: I'm not saying they are not usefulIraTrask [3k]: Learn joseki and get 2 stones weaker.wefawfsadf: I'm saying that it's much more helpful to amateur playersMikko88888: "wefawfsadf: in top level there's not really much use of a database"];W[rc]C[Xylol [4k]: pop is now starting to playXylol [4k]: he is late :DNaphthalin [6k?]: ohaTheThe [4k]: here we goTheThe [4k]: gonna be short game thisMikko88888: S18darkronin [2k?]: Omg];B[rb]C[Xylol [4k]: well is it more than 30min?snowy [1k]: ko?];W[rd]C[Naphthalin [6k?]: does lukas krämer participate in the weekend tournament?Naphthalin [6k?]: hmEGC2015a [-]: pairing of weekendtournament : http://egc2015.cz/results/weekendsnowy [1k]: ilya chit chatting with his future opponentNaphthalin [6k?]: can't b just p17 and o18 ?Lice [4d]: hmm i doubt this is the punishmentMikko88888: define punishment :Dkolayn112 [1k]: кто такой джаБАРИН?Xylol [4k]: iam so used to see roln with the whites :-PXylol [4k]: kolayn112, he is proogolony [-]: r19 weiqidevil [-]: just o16 for black?AhSayuni [5d]: o16 p17 n17 q19 r18 n18 m18 o19 weiqidevil [-]: m18 should be o19kostuek [?]: korean girls read farLice [4d]: ahsayuni - b would be happy the sacrafice the corner like thatslim76 [1k]: q19wade [5d]: o16 p17 n17 q19 r18 n18 o19 w diesCool [1k]: p19 Lice [4d]: ah wait mabye he won't be so happywolokom [5k]: p17?Lice [4d]: anyway of b plays n17 now and w plays n18 its back to josekiMikko88888: R19kostuek [?]: everything but p17obiwan [2k]: looks like w is in troubleSyxok [2d]: wade o19 n19?snowy [1k]: ali left and cried in the bathroomrsg [5k]: Go Ali!darkronin [2k?]: Why didn't w play o16 when he could have?wade [5d]: syxok youre rightwolokom [5k]: euro tv is closed is anny follow up?];B[nd];W[oc];B[mc]C[darkronin [2k?]: There we go];W[pa]C[Mikko88888: this doesn't work];B[qb];W[mb];B[na]C[Mikko88888: N19];W[ma];B[lb];W[sb];B[la];W[ra]C[weiqidevil [-]: at least good outside for black];B[nh]C[kostuek [?]: nomnomgogonuts [4d]: fair imoMikko88888: w F17Syxok [2d]: r3 o11 m3 working so niceIdoc [2d]: really?Xylol [4k]: w sente so b wall really good?Idoc [2d]: seems to favor bwhatisgo [-]: seems like a much better result for bgogonuts [4d]: well, the wall is good :-)manofearth [?]: by plentywolokom [5k]: i think this is much more than w hasMikko88888: so black's toilet visit paid off :-)gogonuts [4d]: lol, this results splits the kibitzesPlaySlow [11k]: Ilya could have made a ko right? For corner life? He didnt do it because he wanted the wall and there are no ko threats at the beginning of the gameCBlue [?]: :Dwade [5d]: 20 pts corner is big snowy [1k]: T,TCBlue [?]: it seems still a game :-sPOB: this is a normal resultwade [5d]: and w has a move nowXylol [4k]: i would like to play white, kyus like points.snowy [1k]: this is normal for ilya................... ! ! !Lice [4d]: good for black for surekostuek [?]: those are like 20 pointsMikko88888: is it normal that ilya is winning`?POB: look at pro game http://ps.waltheri.net/database.html#/game/62330?move=44CBlue [?]: anyway, w n5 or f17?manofearth [?]: w has ~30 ptsMikko88888: POB, nice!Syxok [2d]: i think lower left is the hottest areaSyxok [2d]: right*gogonuts [4d]: thx POBgogonuts [4d]: if that is fair, b is good heregogonuts [4d]: and w didnt find p5 yet :-)wefawfsadf: huh, practically this exact game has been played at pro level before? :osnowy [1k]: youtube is always behind T.TXylol [4k]: o13 kostuek [?]: it is the pro levelkostuek [?]: kindawefawfsadf: so black wins by resignation, nicetr3bl [3k]: :Dwefawfsadf: :)Annie [-]: gote wall with holesBeef [3d]: looks really goodmanofearth [?]: hottest area meaning what?Annie [-]: never said it wasnteTurtleDove [5k]: ventilation :)];W[oo]C[kostuek [?]: this influence is scarygogonuts [4d]: did he find it, or was he thinking all the time: should I play the same move? :-)wolokom [5k]: is anny follow up to euro tv to see the player?AhSayuni [5d]: the wall has some holes in it..AhSayuni [5d]: and w has more cash so farMariusJ [1k]: http://egc2015.cz/streamGoRoGoRo [12k?]: members of Yunguseng Dojan (Inseong Hwang) know p5 at kyu level alreadyBeef [3d]: I doubt he learned that game gogonuts :)gogonuts [4d]: p5 is good but b a little aheadmanofearth [?]: so what  matains instability of p5 best? manofearth [?]: no way its lightgogonuts [4d]: yeah, I shouldn't doubt :-)Xylol [4k]: q6 ];B[po]C[GoRoGoRo [12k?]: q6 is a bnit non-ilyishGoRoGoRo [12k?]: *bitwefawfsadf: oh no, now they deviated from the pro gamewefawfsadf: such amateurwolokom [5k]: q 5 is standart?Dupaaxe [?]: :)))snowy [1k]: the moves played so far is a pro game ?Beef [3d]: they already skipped the o13 n13 exchangeNaphthalin [6k?]: lol, thx for the link @whoever posted itwefawfsadf: up until bQ5, this game is an exact copy (minus some exchanges at top right) of a pro korean women's game at http://ps.waltheri.net/database.html#/game/62330?move=44POB: q3 for wSyxok [2d]: wow ilya is so restlesssnowy [1k]: 진짜?! right... interesting : )Annie [-]: ...Annie [-]: nogogonuts [4d]: ilya sharper than the other game :-)herissondu [5d]: wow, this is a weird oneAnnie [-]: strong moveNaphthalin [6k?]: but since we're here on KGSNaphthalin [6k?]: b already won because he played a b2 in sentegogonuts [4d]: tries to  protect the right and avoid w p3 at the same timeXylol [4k]: Naphthalin it is koJodo [2d]: If you mean W Q3 B R3 W Q6, B will probably cut at P6Xylol [4k]: because we're here on KGS :-PNaphthalin [6k?]: that's the other rulePOB: q3 r3 p6 Naphthalin [6k?]: but, just state "ko" thenXylol [4k]: kokostuek [?]: well, p6 still a moveAnnie [-]: is itNaphthalin [6k?]: yesNaphthalin [6k?]: you just gained 2 stones in kibitzNaphthalin [6k?]: you just gained 2 stones in kinitzkostuek [?]: yayXylol [4k]: EGC nice cam setupXylol [4k]: thanks for relaying the gameNaphthalin [6k?]: p6 too slow nowNaphthalin [6k?]: (damn, bad internet connection...)Xylol [4k]: p6 fineIdoc [2d]: Ali must have spent a third of his time already..Iniesta [2k]: upper right better for w or b is it happy with this big outside ?Xylol [4k]: w t 1h36m leftXylol [4k]: Iniesta it should be fairXylol [4k]: similar game in pro game, so the difference should not be shocking bigIniesta [2k]: depends on the use of this wallMikko88888: not necessarily fair it it has once occured in a pro game];W[op];B[pq]C[Lice [4d]: this is much better for b than in the pro gameXylol [4k]: Mikko itis just a indicator that it is not against all intuition of goPOB: w is in troubleXylol [4k]: btw. is ilya married?Xylol [4k]: i saw a ring on his right handMikko88888: xylol, true. not a catastrophe by any means but doens't mean it's evenPlaySlow [11k]: P4 was very slow? Where would u play instead of P4 if u were White?Xylol [4k]: Mikko88888m, youre rightIraTrask [2k]: looks like w fell in a trapIniesta [2k]: m5 and run free];W[om]C[Xylol [4k]: i will be happy to play p6 thenXylol [4k]: after m5 of wTurtleDove [5k]: B makes points in this corner all ways. prob build strength to attack m3Xylol [4k]: or k4];B[ln]C[Mikko88888: typical ilyakostuek [?]: w gets a bit heavyGoMaster [2d]: go for the hunt, elyasnowy [1k]: i dont remember which tournament but some kibitzers said he is @ xylolgogonuts [4d]: unlikely that w will die though, so m6 is riskyflobby [-]: oo id a bomber diesnowy [1k]: w is not getting any points hereflobby [-]: didsnowy [1k]: nowp nowp nowp wsnowy [1k]: no u don'tgogonuts [4d]: despite b getting the peep, i like q6TurtleDove [5k]: W has p10 or o10 sente at some point in the fightGoMaster [2d]: or even better, intend to cut some times, so black has to come back somehowJodo [2d]: maybe Q6 better reduction point than P5];W[pn];B[nn];W[nm];B[mm];W[mo];B[mn];W[on];B[nr];W[nk]C[Iniesta [2k]: did jabarin alreday beat ilya ?Lice [4d]: only a thausand timesNaphthalin [6k?]: maybe only a hauntred times];B[lk]C[Iniesta [2k]: i though b was strongersnowy [1k]: uhmNaphthalin [6k?]: b is scary in this tournamentsnowy [1k]: ilya won all his games so farSecil [6k?]: Q11 stones dead if W wants now right?gogonuts [4d]: w has a lot to play for, I think m6 should have been at q6snowy [1k]: if they played a lot before then maybe he have prepared for this ^_^snowy [1k]: especially if he lost a lot lolMikko88888: cut at P11 black's only troubleIniesta [2k]: b has a huge wall nowIniesta [2k]: im scary of this wall even if im not playingMuttley [3k]: "Muttley sente me one of his "PowerGo With Muttley!" DVDs before the EGC, and now I'm on 4/4" - Ilya Shikshin.TurtleDove [5k]: yeah B wall nearly full board north to south lolJodo [2d]: If W cut at P11 now B atari, sacrfice Q11 stones and get all LR quarterMuttley [3k]: "I didn't watch it." - Ilya Shikshin.snowy [1k]: the great wall of ilyaNaphthalin [6k?]: muttley, are you sure that "sente" is the correct past of send?Muttley [3k]: hehewolokom [5k]: chinese wallNaphthalin [6k?]: who built the chinese wall?kostuek [?]: aliensAvari [?]: egd-rated games 7, ali one 1 against iljagogonuts [4d]: r9?ganesha2 [3k]: interesting that great wall ancient part has archers windows facing inside Chinaganesha2 [3k]: someont built the wall against chinese kostuek [?]: in the pro game w quickly made shape, this here looks a bit uglywolokom [5k]: a bit??Naphthalin [6k?]: @ganesha, archer windows facing the own territory make senseJodo [2d]: W carrying burden of bad result topNaphthalin [6k?]: if someone crosses it at a point, you want the castles to defend the territory as wellganesha2 [3k]: +. w seems heavy. go IlyaNaphthalin [6k?]: w has time for r9 now?PlaySlow [11k]: @jodo so if black sacrifices q11, he cuts at O6 and take bottom right you mean?TurtleDove [5k]: hmm, does W s6 threaten q4 and p3 follow upNaphthalin [6k?]: ilya already had a huge-area gameatman [?]: The wall was not for preventing a big invasion, it was for catching small raiding armies. And they could best be fought on their way backganesha2 [3k]: yes, but historian declare that the wall was built by chinese against west tribesPlaySlow [11k]: Not west tribes. It was built against turks at the northPlaySlow [11k]: Hun EmpirePlaySlow [11k]: Consisting of small tribesganesha2 [3k]: and 70% of the wall is 300 years old Jodo [2d]: no, I mean if W cut, B gives Q11 to W, and B takes the main W group and all lower rightganesha2 [3k]: all touristic places for sure newDupaaxe [?]: maybe mongolsNaphthalin [6k?]: anywayNaphthalin [6k?]: what does this wall here protect?Naphthalin [6k?]: invasion from the right?oreo [1d?]: w P7 was a bit strange, wrong direction ?oreo [1d?]: some strong player care to comment on that ?Lice [4d]: p7 goodHappyLook [5d]: no strong players here ;(snowy [1k]: : (oreo [1d?]: strong(er) than me that is, which is not hard :-)))Dupaaxe [?]: ama :)))Jodo [2d]: I think W P5 was wrong start, Q6 betteroreo [1d?]: i would have played something like M instead of P7oreo [1d?]: M6HappyLook [5d]: dunno if there was really good move to invade. this result at the top is just too bad for whiteHappyLook [5d]: hard to continueoreo [1d?]: but then maybe black too bigoreo [1d?]: i see tks :-))atman [?]: This game really seems out of balance. Black only needs to turn a small portion of his potential into territoryxerox27 [3k]: o11oreo [1d?]: w can put some pressure on the Q11 stoneskostuek [?]: maybe w can get some sente against the corner and settle?kostuek [?]: but it hurtsNaphthalin [6k?]: b n10 would hurt w hereNaphthalin [6k?]: but b still has no base around g15 to profit from the walloreo [1d?]: fortunately b can only play one stone at a time ;-)Iniesta [2k]: w will live in goteNaphthalin [6k?]: that's w's only help hereIniesta [2k]: then b f16wefawfsadf: assuming w group on the right was settled and white got sente to play on the left side: would you rather play wC14 or wF17?Naphthalin [6k?]: isn't f16 too close to wNaphthalin [6k?]: 's corner?WiteDragon [3k]: noWiteDragon [3k]: thivkness really greatoreo [1d?]: anyone knows what's that funny icon fj has ? looks like a tux :))wefawfsadf: oreo: isn't that just a mobile phone icon? for Android client?Muttley [3k]: Its the phone appriskybabe [4k]: in live broadcast  jabarin seems nervousEGC2015a [-]: yesMuttley [3k]: w should be nervous, his position is a bit pantsTurtleDove [5k]: maybe W can use the threat to connect through s11. say with s9 nowEGC2015a [-]: he is little nervous,EGC2015a [-]: he dont like the positionMuttley [3k]: keep calm and attack the wallNaphthalin [6k?]: maybe he just read everything outNaphthalin [6k?]: and o12 diesNaphthalin [6k?]: and he wants to be sure about itoreo [1d?]: oh, is ihe ? what is the link for the live broadcast ?WestEvil [5k]: Кто-нибудь может их поторопить?WestEvil [5k]: чо так медленноriskybabe [4k]: http://egc2015.cz/streamsnowy [1k]: he needs to live in sente thats what he need D:oreo [1d?]: is that a link is russian ? oh tks :-))riskybabe [4k]: :)gogonuts [4d]: reason to be nervous, but also has something to play for - if and when w lives, b doesnt have a lot of secure points];W[mj]C[gogonuts [4d]: ilya gave up the right side for the attackNaphthalin [6k?]: n10, yeahNaphthalin [6k?]: b will take r8 i guessWestEvil [5k]: can they play faster?gogonuts [4d]: lolriskybabe [4k]: breaking the wall with no eyes..];B[ni];W[lj];B[kj]C[Naphthalin [6k?]: ok, o12 doesn't die nowsnowy [1k]: yesterday, ilya can take a break and back with his time ^^;;;riskybabe [4k]: o13 is bad aji stillWiteDragon [3k]: seesh do those flags really have to be in front of the board in the stream?gogonuts [4d]: i dont like n10oreo [1d?]: run Forest, run :-)];W[ki]C[gogonuts [4d]: because b fixed his last weak spotNaphthalin [6k?]: o13 becomes biggergogonuts [4d]: and w is running where b is strongestNaphthalin [6k?]: gogo, did he really?Namaskar [1k]: good point... the flags could be moved back to we can see the board...oreo [1d?]: i put my money on w :-)snowy [1k]: split the flag and put it on the cornest of cornersEGC2015a [-]: i will move them when they will leave desklxlx [-]: I just looked up the pattern in the upper right at josekipedia and found this game as a reference.nidza92 [6d?]: black's shape doesnt look so goodEGC2015a [-]: ilja seems not happyNaphthalin [6k?]: and ali?Namaskar [1k]: ok, thx egopastlink [?]: if you can write there you can see the board better than on the stream...  ^^Hashirama [1k]: EGC just use the forceNamaskar [1k]: egc*EGC2015a [-]: ali is now calmoreo [1d?]: who's that guy with the fists on his cheeks ... funny :-)riskybabe [4k]: one coffee to ilyamnbvcx: m12resusou: w plays nice heresnowy [1k]: i can see egc on stream, hi egcgogonuts [4d]: in this type of position the side that has to make the next move is always more nervous :-)yaneth [6k]: wow ... ilya is thinking more than just a few seconds! :Osnowy [1k]: perhaps he already considered this variation in mindoreo [1d?]: double hane];B[li]C[oreo [1d?]: yes, warrior styleEGC2015a [-]: l9 doesnt work, l9 n9Muttley [3k]: p10WiteDragon [3k]: now Ilja is rocking in his chair instead of aliMargera [6k]: he moves so much lolriskybabe [4k]: he is dancingWeakest [3k?]: its originally ilyas move, the rocking ;}Hashirama [1k]: He is putting in cheat codesEGC2015a [-]: both dancing :-Dsnowy [1k]: ilya trademarksagesse [-]: where is that live stream?WiteDragon [3k]: rolnLyoug [2k]: he's waiting for his next attack like an rpg fightEGC2015a [-]: aliis knocking the legs under tableMargera [6k]: looks like hes prayingWiteDragon [3k]: http://egc2015.cz/streamEGC2015a [-]: Its funny to observe, Ali move upa nd down and ilja circle wade [5d]: n11 m12 n12 o13 l9 n9 o10 k10 l8 m8 k11 double ladder it looks nice for woreo [1d?]: these guys look fit, anyone knows what physical traing they have ?gogonuts [4d]: is germany the only country where youtube is so pissy about streaming?gogonuts [4d]: it works with hola, but stillkostuek [?]: would be nice to see their brain activities right nowArtjom [3k]: надеюсь Илья в носу в этот раз не будет ковырятьсяWiteDragon [3k]: as far as i know yes, ok in belgiumMuttley [3k]: Ali: "where's my coffee?"  Ilya: "kill ... kill ... kill ... kill ..."WiteDragon [3k]: gogonuts by any chance do you play in a club in berlin?atman [?]: Of course. You think any other nation could be as tight as Germany? ;-)kostuek [?]: :)Muttley [3k]: hehe :)gogonuts [4d]: i live in hamburgWiteDragon [3k]: ah okNaphthalin [6k?]: so what is w's plan here?Naphthalin [6k?]: leave the b wall with some cuts and go for a big left side?oreo [1d?]: Fan-Thomas goban is much thicker than the one used in this game, any reason for this ?gogonuts [4d]: this cut is brutish even by ilyas standards :-)kostuek [?]: break the wall and run around would be goodMuttley [3k]: w has 4 stones outside the wallAhSayuni [5d]: p10 is a strange peepMuttley [3k]: its not looking good, is itAhSayuni [5d]: but might need to consider itoreo [1d?]: it would be nice to move the camera around so we can have a look at the whole roomMuttley [3k]: I want p10 because it vaguely protects a cutNaphthalin [6k?]: and b can't seal?WiteDragon [3k]: b will ignore p10?atman [?]: How big it could become, with so much influence above it? Lower side would become bigger than left side for sure kostuek [?]: too complicated for my brainWiteDragon [3k]: and take sente twice if w pushes trough?WiteDragon [3k]: or is it too much?];W[kk];B[jj];W[qk]C[kostuek [?]: so  much aji everywhere..gogonuts [4d]: any normal human being would play m12 now, so where will ilya play? :-)Rodtank [1d]: n9?Rodtank [1d]: p9?mnbvcx: n9Muttley [3k]: e16snowy [1k]: all players can't keep yawning throughout this tournament o.0atman [?]: D10?snowy [1k]: such a boring game.......... ;pNaphthalin [6k?]: well, ilya is playing on KGS in the evening xDkostuek [?]: k11?ganesha2 [3k]: I wonder what is Ali's face expression now?zima [2k]: m8 or m12 oreo [1d?]: great overall view of the roomoreo [1d?]: coolriskybabe [4k]: boring];B[fo]C[Naphthalin [6k?]: @oreo: the room was indeed really nicekostuek [?]: tenuki, ofcsnowy [1k]: https://youtu.be/bAi-Ic5dB1c   video streamNaphthalin [6k?]: f5 bigzima [2k]: thanksoreo [1d?]: m8 ?Artjom [3k]: Илья гипнотизирует оппонентаArtjom [3k]: )))))))))snowy [1k]: next b upper left ?Iniesta [2k]: private jokeoreo [1d?]: where is artem ?gogonuts [4d]: upper left is an ideagogonuts [4d]: maybe g16WiteDragon [3k]: looks like b already made up for the w cash in upper rightgogonuts [4d]: so the bottom calamity doesnt repeat at the top :_)theolddan [2d]: w will move on upper side  f17 maybezima [2k]: Iiya moves like a hypno fogoreo [1d?]: maybe he has adhd :-)AhSayuni [5d]: I think Ali will be patient and play d2 Rodtank [1d]: d2 does seem ali styleAhSayuni [5d]: there seems to be enough ajitheolddan [2d]: but b f17 too good imhoresusou: w not bad  at this moment I think];W[mi]C[wefawfsadf: I think white still owes a move to the right];B[jk]C[mdm [4k]: artem lost yesterdaytheolddan [2d]: now bottom becomes urgent for  w];W[lh];B[ng]C[oreo [1d?]: the streaming has something like 30 s delayRodtank [1d]: oh i tohught black would n12 to take the eyewefawfsadf: oreo: refreshing the stream will get it more up to dateEGC2015a [-]: it cant be "live"wefawfsadf: somehow the lag increases the longer you watchoreo [1d?]: i'm just sayin' :-)EGC2015a [-]: streaming go over 2 computers which restreamingvideo];W[dr]C[gogonuts [4d]: we want fresh streams :-)oreo [1d?]: i was about to ask what kind of streaming techno do you guys use ?Annie [-]: you do have oneEGC2015a [-]: and its IP cameras so there is delay too :)illyriak [8k]: d2?Annie [-]: its being broadcasted on kgs liveWiteDragon [3k]: nice call sayunisnowy [1k]: o no wonder];B[dm]C[Rodtank [1d]: the streaming is nice, well done organiserssnowy [1k]: i noticed...so i just refresh it bitzi [-]: is ilya using some special distraction techinque with his movements?oreo [1d?]: i like D7pastlink [?]: sneak danceEGC2015a [-]: no computers for video is in hotel room and we useing hotel highspeed ethernetoreo [1d?]: it's drunken kungfu-go style ^^EGC2015a [-]: and one men is sitting at that computers and control stream, switch cameras etc.oreo [1d?]: it's good enough, good job guys :-)];W[cm];B[dl]C[EGC2015a [-]: and if you want i can put stones with 30s delay :-P Xylol [4k]: yeah pleaseDupaaxe [?]: :))))];W[mq]C[Xylol [4k]: but on the other hand everyone has a diffrent delay, so do like you wantbitzi [-]: i like the delaybitzi [-]: this way i can see the move and then watch how it was playedLyoug [2k]: +1 bitziXylol [4k]: to see reactions, good pointsnowy [1k]: i need two monitors >.>Hashirama [1k]: I have 3 monitorsHashirama [1k]: :DXylol [4k]: how can you use a pc with 1?riskybabe [4k]: i like the games in which 1/4 of the board is emptyFabbo [7k?]: me too, but there is never enoguh monitorsFabbo [7k?]: *enoughpastlink [?]: can stream recorder go on strike if work conditions are not good enought ?];B[lr]C[Xylol [4k]: noEGC2015a [-]: all streams are recorded localEGC2015a [-]: so maybe after event you can download videos with 720p resolutionoreo [1d?]: the interview with fan is ridiculousXylol [4k]: oreo whats happening?Dupaaxe [?]: I download some and vlc don`t play them :(Hashirama [1k]: :(EGC2015a [-]: where download?Xylol [4k]: its no video file if vlc doesnt play itoreo [1d?]: i had a look at the video where this young girl asked some silly questions to fan ... fan is very polite :-)Xylol [4k]: fan is prowefawfsadf: why is that ridiculous?CrabStone [2d]: the questions were ridiculous?kostuek [?]: because of polite peopleDupaaxe [?]: is ".mp4" :))oreo [1d?]: well, it's european go championship, you have a pro go to be interviewed, the least you can o is to ask interresting questionsMuttley [3k]: I agreeMinjhou [5k?]: question: can someone be -1p?Muttley [3k]: She should have started with "Where is your fan?"oreo [1d?]: lol, ponnolone [8k?]: ha ha haTurtleDove [5k]: same in football. they all want to interview players but then have nothing to ask. it doesn't matter as long as the fans get to hear them talksnowy [1k]: i heard u have a lot of minions on kgsoreo [1d?]: that is a way to start indeedMuttley [3k]: And "Where is your beard?"oreo [1d?]: lolXylol [4k]: Muttley, iam a huge fan of your fan fanMuttley [3k]: heheprofi [2d]: the game looks close, would be w g17 right direction?Muttley [3k]: f17oreo [1d?]: L4 works ?Muttley [3k]: no point letting b live at c17 unconditionallyriskybabe [4k]: jabarin spent too much timeoreo [1d?]: debarre seems to be doing fineponnolone [8k?]: are you a fan of debarre?^^gogonuts [4d]: football interviews are the dumbest thing in the world. before the game: will you win? after the game: why did/didn't you win?fyn [4k]: could someone say how much time they have left?Annie [-]: which footballTurtleDove [5k]: jouralists know it. just get the face in front of the camera is all they careXylol [4k]: the best interview is with olympic swimmers after the contestXylol [4k]: they arent able to say anything just breathing and nodding :Dkostuek [?]: how is water];W[ck]C[oreo [1d?]: boxing before-match interviews beat the football ones i think :-)riskybabe [4k]: after football match programs even worseAnnie [-]: white must feel comfortablersun [4d]: b bottom not so bigrsun [4d]: f17 noworeo [1d?]: c17oreo [1d?]: ^^Xylol [4k]: i though c9 to small.Xylol [4k]: something around f17 for w possible too=?Annie [-]: noAnnie [-]: blacks moveNIre [1k]: e10 Annie [-]: unless he feels like being DQ'dfyn [4k]: Xylol meant for last move, I think];B[dn]C[Xylol [4k]: yeah. something around F17 instead of c9 possible?oreo [1d?]: the body language of the players is fun to observe :-)WiteDragon [3k]: dunno, that top black wall doesn' tdo much any more with the ponnuik now, does it?Annie [-]: the hane is too strong to not jumpnoob1d [5d?]: is this the weekend tournament?WiteDragon [3k]: so f17 areea doesn't seem so importantXylol [4k]: ah i watched some random documentary about go from 1989WiteDragon [3k]: to me];W[do]C[Xylol [4k]: and whos on the tournament there, vladimir danek :Ddxxd [-]: noob, semifinalsnoob1d [5d?]: ok thx];B[fc]C[oreo [1d?]: dumb question, what material did they use on the floor ?Xylol [4k]: well i think f17 importantoreo [1d?]: wood ?WiteDragon [3k]: seems tehe pro's disagreeAnnie [-]: tile?];W[dk];B[ek];W[ej];B[fk]C[oreo [1d?]: plastic ?edlee [2k]: oreo, is there a link to a live video stream ?Annie [-]: obviously not wite as IIya played f17WiteDragon [3k]: http://egc2015.cz/streamriskybabe [4k]: ali is wallingCez [4d]: they used oreosoreo [1d?]: lolCez [4d]: they were your brothers man im sorryWiteDragon [3k]: yeah that's why i said they disagreegodevilgo [4k?]: I prefer whiteXylol [4k]: EGC, thank you alot for moving flaggsWiteDragon [3k]: with me i meant ofcnoob1d [5d?]: so players in the semi finals can't play in the weekend tournament?Secil [6k?]: Ali's time is 33 min while ilya got 1:42?gogonuts [4d]: this is looking overconcentrated for brsun [4d]: d14 normaledlee [2k]: WD, thank yoursun [4d]: e18 shukouXylol [4k]: F15?];W[df]C[noob1d [5d?]: c17 WiteDragon [3k]: after f15 i think b wwould invade and fight, it was too muchFraTeoX [1d]: seems bad for b no ,Iniesta [2k]: w leads nowWiteDragon [3k]: i'd sure be ahppy as w now];B[cc];W[dc];B[db];W[cd];B[bb];W[bc];B[cb]C[WiteDragon [3k]: so maybe f 17 wrong after all? :-)Annie [-]: no];W[fj];B[gk]C[oreo [1d?]: f17 kept options open :-)riskybabe [4k]: criticalkostuek [?]: b really likes his h7 areaAnnie [-]: last time I checked p7 was niether dead or alivefyn [4k]: I keep expecting him to tenuki from thereoreo [1d?]: alivefyn [4k]: I thought he'd tenuki d9CrabStone [2d]: schrodinger's grouporeo [1d?]: or lee groups :-)snowy [1k]: oh noes for bSecil [6k?]: Eh, ali vs fan in the finals:pXylol [4k]: oreo :)snowy [1k]: no0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0orsun [4d]:  ein Spiel ohne Blut / ist nicht wirklich gutSecil [6k?]: Jawohl, das ist Richtiggodevilgo [4k?]: G15?oreo [1d?]: this is a foolow up og the schrodinger sentence ?kolayn112 [1k]: у черных не так гладко как хотелось бы правильно понимаюoreo [1d?]: :-)];W[fr]C[TheThe [4k]: SE got b+5WestEvil [5k]: колян, не парьсяoreo [1d?]: f2 is biiig];B[eq];W[er]C[hu3: j18TurtleDove [5k]: SE not good with AGA rulesanton007 [-]: Белый выигрывает сейчасrsun [4d]: d10 aji];B[gq]C[kolayn112 [1k]: ну хочется чтоб Россия впереди былаWestEvil [5k]: ну у белого очки понадежнее вродеWestEvil [5k]: посмотримubique [3d]: Is E3 really reasonable?oreo [1d?]: what next ?rsun [4d]: e3 is standard yoseoreo [1d?]: F15 ?wefawfsadf: I think this position is starting to look good for whiteXylol [4k]: oreo G15?FraTeoX [1d]: it's is not startingbitzi [-]: b16 bigoreo [1d?]: G16 ?EGC2015a [-]: j16maybewefawfsadf: I'd rather wG16 than wG15riskybabe [4k]: f15 is strengthening b isn't it?ubique [3d]: Oh, I always play G2 no questions asked...Xylol [4k]: whats happening with p7 group?Muttley [3k]: aliveFraTeoX [1d]: now g15Xylol [4k]: and how many points is b16? :-Prsun [4d]: yes, I always thought so as well, until I saw pros play e3 too...gogonuts [4d]: can b still win?Muttley [3k]: b16 normally 11 points, isn't itoreo [1d?]: w looks goodrsun [4d]: e3 emphasizes the push cut aji, I thinkhu3: w j15Xylol [4k]: b looks really relaxedWiteDragon [3k]: maybe if m12 not yet alive?riskybabe [4k]: what about g16?Xylol [4k]: a bit riskyXylol [4k]: babexerox27 [3k]: l14Muttley [3k]: h16 looks like a big reductionriskybabe [4k]: :PMuttley [3k]: I think w connects back either wayrsun [4d]: only SE and a pack of sakata eios can kill m12 groupTurtleDove [5k]: W e6 worth it to get c8 sente ?WiteDragon [3k]: :)NivCoan [2k]: lol];W[ec]C[Muttley [3k]: e17.Muttley [3k]: Beautiful pro shape.CrabStone [2d]: f18 ?rsun [4d]: w left > b bottomWiteDragon [3k]: seems w counted and just reeling in the big yosersun [4d]: just reduce the top, and it's a solid winoreo [1d?]: pro approachMuttley [3k]: where did b go wrong?Iniesta [2k]: easy winMuttley [3k]: I wasn't watching for a butkostuek [?]: "a snake bites in a rabbit" shapeWiteDragon [3k]: f17 :-)WiteDragon [3k]: never use thickness to make points :-)snowy [1k]: T.Toreo [1d?]: b thought the H5 group will bring lots of points, so wrong direction ?rsun [4d]: don't know why b didn't make e10 c10 exchangersun [4d]: huge differencekostuek [?]: b played f5 to create sort of miai, but seems j6 area may be not big enoughsnowmen [4d]: isn't white ahead??Xylol [4k]: who has better endgame?Muttley [3k]: yes, snowmenMuttley [3k]: w had a bad position b seems to have blown itmaciek [2d]: b tenuki :)Muttley [3k]: q8 and kills white a few moves laterFraTeoX [1d]: ilya doesn't seems to be so confidentCrabStone [2d]: ali beat him a month agorsun [4d]: ali is one year ahead in pro trainingbitzi [-]: b looking for some special movesFraTeoX [1d]: yesXylol [4k]: how many points is b16?oreo [1d?]: do you know where they train ?oreo [1d?]: insei school ? :-)rsun [4d]: ali and pavol went to chinabitzi [-]: b16 11ptIniesta [2k]: w doesnt have kgs account ?riskybabe [4k]: he hasIniesta [2k]: whats his name ?riskybabe [4k]: oohaah or s.thing like thatXylol [4k]: tyrsun [4d]: I heard they fought all the way up the highest class in insei school];B[dq];W[cq];B[cr]C[TheThe [4k]: desperado?rsun [4d]: it is yose skilloreo [1d?]: big yoseAlenchon [6k]: no, try to limit the large W left sideTurtleDove [5k]: this aims at B c8 ?CrabStone [2d]: sente toooreo [1d?]: B3 ?];W[bq]C[CrabStone [2d]: b2oreo [1d?]: ^^Annie [-]: not sure what hte plan was..NireX [2k?]: f12 rsun [4d]: b can push cut atari down then kosumi at a4rsun [4d]: after b2 a2 exchangeFraTeoX [1d]: seems ilya practice the circle corpse bomber oreo [1d?]: lolFraTeoX [1d]: pretty efficient weaponrsun [4d]: so w cannot a2 if b b2];B[dj]C[Annie [-]: c8 TheThe [4k]: yikes];W[cj]C[Annie [-]: or you knowTheThe [4k]: go ilya!Annie [-]: just leave the thereAnnie [-]: cut*FraTeoX [1d]: go AliAnnie [-]: the cut will come back to bite alioreo [1d?]: a bit late for ilya ?gogonuts [4d]: ilya realized he can't just let the game take its natural courseNireX [2k?]: how time?gogonuts [4d]: but hard to stir things up now, agreeoreo [1d?]: i see kos coming :-)GoMaster [2d]: rsun, is there some kind of article about pavol and lisy. about the insei classes, id like to know more :) ? Tonight [3k?]: Pavol and lisy?snowmen [4d]: it is only aji, noting worksTonight [3k?]: Why not lee and sedol?snowmen [4d]: nothingsnowy [1k]: : (gogonuts [4d]: if nothing works its not aji :-)riskybabe [4k]: d10 cut makes w strongerXylol [4k]: aji is just some tasteIniesta [2k]: maybe b was too confident and played too fastoreo [1d?]: if nothing works, if both see that, that is :-)snowmen [4d]: black d13 would at least be an ideaTheThe [4k]: Ilya too confident? never happengogonuts [4d]: blunder aji :-)rsun [4d]: @GoMaster http://weiqi-to-go.net/2015/02/05/an-interview-with-top-european-players-studying-in-china/Hellhuman [1d?]: is this the first ruond of the day?Annie [-]: more like plunderMuttley [3k]: wow, b really did get into vanilla modeBlitzcore [3k]: f16 for b?GoMaster [2d]: thx, rsun :) mdm [4k]: for those guys it's the only round todayoreo [1d?]: ali is impressive, very calm, inward oriented and Ilyia is all fire, maybe some accupuncture or swiming would be god for him :-)YZ1509 [3d]: white has a good gameTurtleDove [5k]: yah, to many 5 hour matches a day is bad for the digestionriskybabe [4k]: indeedMuttley [3k]: Maybe Ilya should have watched my DVD after allbitzi [-]: so ilya thinks if he can't find anything he'll loseBlitzcore [3k]: well - b has problems, so he might have already watched it...WiteDragon [3k]: oh no not spamming the dvd's again...Muttley [3k]: atm w 77.5, b 80, but that's without the problems at the top accounted forMuttley [3k]: I'll stop :))];B[cl];W[bl];B[bm]C[rsun [4d]: pavol biting his lip: http://www.go-teacher.com/uploads/4/8/7/6/48768223/982957.jpg];W[bk]C[Hellhuman [1d?]: Thats important rsun .3WiteDragon [3k]: ;-)TheThe [4k]: wow];B[co]C[kostuek [?]: why i didn't read it in the local press];W[bn];B[bo]C[Muttley [3k]: I think the result will most likely be within 4.5 points];W[am];B[br]C[noob1d [5d?]: b masterMuttley [3k]: but b tenuki top, so that's a loss of points laterMuttley [3k]: and a gain for whiteAnnie [-]: this doesnt workLice [4d]: g2 sente means it works very wellMuttley [3k]: its a squeeze to seal g2 in senteLice [4d]: b9 probably a mistakeYZ1509 [3d]: yes just e5 g2 sente for blackMuttley [3k]: and b really, really needs senteBlitzcore [3k]: b trying to increase d10 aji?oreo [1d?]: g2 sente was already available after the first C2kostuek [?]: this is bigUlasBelh [3k]: a4 would be painful for woreo [1d?]: no need to play the other moves, ];W[ar]C[oreo [1d?]: b is trying but no avail, w solid ... steady  ... win];B[ap]C[TheThe [4k]: SE got b+7gogonuts [4d]: manbolbi [-]: thank you TheThersun [4d]: I saw all this at move 106Muttley [3k]: I have b a bit ahead if you discount the g14 area, which is more likely to be points for w nowCrabStone [2d]: b4 ?Feanor [1d]: you're seeing things rsun, that cannot be goodgogonuts [4d]: b gave up the d1 ko aji after b g2, to get the incredible a6UlasBelh [3k]: yes that movegogonuts [4d]: this iw worse than expectedMuttley [3k]: but just b4rsun [4d]: b aiming at c4 cut, not a6];W[bp]C[Muttley [3k]: yeahCrabStone [2d]: b1 Muttley [3k]: that's the point, allow the squeeze to deny the cutgogonuts [4d]: muttley saved the dayriskybabe [4k]: kamino itte];B[eo]C[Feanor [1d]: shape in senteMuttley [3k]: this is going to be a nailbiting yose for aliCrabStone [2d]: g2 also sente now];W[cp]C[Muttley [3k]: since he probably felt he had a clean leadrsun [4d]: you should cite crabstone for b4, not muttley];B[gr]C[CrabStone [2d]: thx rsun];W[eb]C[Muttley [3k]: CrabStone [2d]: b4 ?];B[bd];W[be];B[ac]C[Muttley [3k]: quite right :)gogonuts [4d]: sry, didnt seersun [4d]: lol jk ;)Muttley [3k]: neither did I, crabstone :)Steuer09 [-]:  a well, cravstone put a "?" to b4, while muttley, oc course, didnttheolddan [2d]: b b1 bonus ajiSteuer09 [-]: *crabstoneMuttley [3k]: lolWiteDragon [3k]: look at f17 now...fyn [4k]: doesn't b1 just win the three stones?Muttley [3k]: I'm more concerned about the effect of b g10theolddan [2d]: not even ko nowCrabStone [2d]: yes fynfyn [4k]: right, thanks];W[kl]C[riskybabe [4k]: wowwGoMaster [2d]: black got a little bit more than 60p mnbvcx: k8Annie [-]: its a good move if iilya ignoresoreo [1d?]: L4 is next];B[km]C[asahin: top is still the place to be nowFabbo [7k?]: what about r6Lice [4d]: what about b1?asahin: doesnt w just want aji to get some closure around j11jim [5d]: g10xerox27 [3k]: j17Lice [4d]: b1 14 points..Minjhou [5k?]:  CrabStone [2d]: b1 gotenoob1d [5d?]: w can't miss a15 letoII [5k]: is it ?letoII [5k]: b1 white elsewhere b f1 ?];W[mr];B[ms];W[lp]C[fyn [4k]: white can't save the stones even if he answers];B[kp];W[kq]C[Lice [4d]: b will probably ignore a15 at this pointletoII [5k]: ok fynrsun [4d]: the style of Ali / is like the pirates of Somali / it's not by stealth / that he gathers his wealth];B[nq];W[mp]C[asahin: w's shape is fixed nowNireX [2k?]: bad];B[ko]C[Muttley [3k]: Ali's style / I've seen for a while / is play pretty quiet / then start a riot];W[qo]C[Fabbo [7k?]: isn't that called power go? ];B[ro]C[oreo [1d?]: all this for sente s5 ? cool];W[pp];B[qq]C[noob1d [5d?]: a15 asahin: playing s6 is painfulDeodred [3d]: i coun't b1 has more than 20 ptsYZ1509 [3d]: yes i wondered about white s4, rather played s5 for white myselforeo [1d?]: a 15 F18 ?maciek [2d]: wrong counting ;) its like 13-14 :)jim [5d]: b1 is 17 pointsmaciek [2d]: :D];W[rn]C[Deodred [3d]: did you count H2, h1 pts?asahin: b will ignore thisnoob1d [5d?]: ofcasahin: so sente for top ?asahin: or b1 ?Deodred [3d]: H17 is bigger than B1MrVaga [1k]: b1 will not wome right nowEGC2015a [-]: ilja looking at topnoob1d [5d?]: i'd try a15 first, then play b1 Lice [4d]: w will ignore a15Lice [4d]: b will also ignore a15asahin: f18 ?Lice [4d]: b1 is biggerMrVaga [1k]: gote bigger, so not really biggerLice [4d]: ...asahin: do you count your hot points ?rsun [4d]: H17Steuer09 [-]: just countr hot pantsasahin: h17 seems reasonnablenamtg [2k]: b is leadingnamtg [2k]: ?prius: w leadsYZ1509 [3d]: yes if white gets a stone at h17 m15 might stirr uncontrolable problemsrsun [4d]: one leads, the other bleedsnoob1d [5d?]: b ain't got time to bleedVPP79 [2k]: Илья всегда так качается, когда играет?asahin: looks like a close game to meSecil [6k?]: 1hour vs 7 minutesMuttley [3k]: w 77.5m, b 75YZ1509 [3d]: white has the edge in my countsMuttley [3k]: I gave w b1Muttley [3k]: but generous to w around f13Secil [6k?]: 1:13 vs 0:07 it says in stream?Secil [6k?]: or my eyes are failing:)Muttley [3k]: I still think its within 4.5 errorsnowy [1k]: plus komisnowy [1k]:  : __________(Muttley [3k]: counted komisnowy [1k]: ilya looked pausedMuttley [3k]: w's about 71 on the boardsnowy [1k]: he prolly know : (Muttley [3k]: again, giving b1 and f13Namaskar [1k]: whoever gets h17 should winMuttley [3k]: I prefer this approach to counting to leaving undecided areas fully "undecided"prius: how dou you count the area around j16?kolayn112 [1k]: еще играть и играть какие очки вы считаете???rsun [4d]: you don't count j16 areaMuttley [3k]: I gave b h17 in exchange for w's b1Weishenme [4d]: d13 asahin: you dont count undecidedNamaskar [1k]: ah icMuttley [3k]: so I gave by 11 points thereYZ1509 [3d]: i never heard about ali jabarin before, which country he is?prius: then u cant count at allrsun [4d]: israelSecil [6k?]: Ali jabarin is the 2nd european pro after pavol lisy:)asahin: you dont count undecided as points for a sidesnowy [1k]: orlyrsun [4d]: ironically israel is in asiaSecil [6k?]: Yes snowy, u can read from here http://weiqi-to-go.net/2014/06/24/ali-jabarin-defeats-surma-podpera-to-become-second-european-pro/.Muttley [3k]: asahin, you do if you make a guestimate who gets to play it out firstprius: not for sport eventsYZ1509 [3d]: yeah blame the crusadersasahin: isnt it in the middle east ?prius: israel football teams play in uefa competitionsrsun [4d]: middle east is in asia...Muttley [3k]: part of counting is figuring out how the trades fall outUlasBelh [3k]: s7asahin: you count +- on medium rangeTheThe [4k]: just trust SE, b+17 nowMuttley [3k]: depends why you're countingasahin: to know where to play next ?Muttley [3k]: if you're counting to see where to play next, then +/- works fairly wellMuttley [3k]: yesnoob1d [5d?]: ilya 2 strongtugkan [2d]: What abort tMuttley [3k]: if you're counting to see what the result will be, you need to make a decisionsamowar [1d]: maybe g15?tugkan [2d]: What about timesNorahJones [?]: W+Rganesha2 [3k]: gonna be close asahin: non sensemdm [4k]: b gonna winsamowar [1d]: or f12samowar [1d]: :PMuttley [3k]: depends how close it isasahin: not you muttleyNorahJones [?]: its still openMuttley [3k]: heheh, I don't mind if it is :)TheThe [4k]: captain will winsnowy [1k]: b imagining game until endgame now ! ! !asahin: i get what you meanMuttley [3k]: right :)NorahJones [?]: i imagine many things...YZ1509 [3d]: it's already yoseMuttley [3k]: it all depends what your goal in counting isMuttley [3k]: it could be to calculate ko threats instead, for exampleasahin: going to 100 one dayjim [5d]: we all imagine more or less not only blackoreo [1d?]: w s4];B[fb]C[tugkan [2d]: e12];W[fa]C[Muttley [3k]: all in :))tugkan [2d]: for bsnowy [1k]: moinejim [5d]: S4 and B1or F1 a kind of miaiLice [4d]: why he rushed into f19?oreo [1d?]: s4 looks hugejim [5d]: S4 is big also then P3 and T3 for white are senteYZ1509 [3d]: b1 slightly bigger than s4];B[hb]C[tugkan [2d]: B1 nothingYZ1509 [3d]: so all gets down on who gets a15 senteLice [4d]: w a15 is no longer senteLice [4d]: oh waitLice [4d]: hmmMuttley [3k]: a15 is a 25 points ko if b wants it to beoreo [1d?]: which also invalidates the previous comment ^^jim [5d]: G10  I like here YZ1509 [3d]: yes therefor f18 was chosen to make b d18 sente to survive in the cornerMuttley [3k]: so double gote is 12Lice [4d]: ye a15 not sente];W[bs]C[Muttley [3k]: so not the biggest to answerLice [4d]: b lives by double koasahin: sente is just your opponent answeringoreo [1d?]: winiing movetheolddan [2d]: w steels b1WiteDragon [3k]: guess w counts it as a winMuttley [3k]: w might just be taking as many clean points now as possible, since reduction at the top should be white's senteLice [4d]: ah no nvm a15 is still senteMuttley [3k]: rather than leave b with the largest gote plays after playing out the top];B[fe]C[Lice [4d]: but b would tenuki and play b1YZ1509 [3d]: hmm i expected white j16 instead of b1testgo1 [3k]: m8 sente for w ?pancake [3d]: g15 wasn't worth it for white?Muttley [3k]: now we get the fun of recounting :))Lice [4d]: now its time for a15pancake [3d]: It looked really big to metheolddan [2d]: b1 s4 miai not treated as miaioreo [1d?]: now b brings back D10WiteDragon [3k]: g10 isn't double sente?NorahJones [?]: L14 is a good move now?YZ1509 [3d]: yes j16 area is huge, seems white misses a sequence hereriskybabe [4k]: i don't get it wasn't  f15 better than e18 for w?jim [5d]: also B14 now some ajiasahin: a15 ?oreo [1d?]: so w needs a 15 thenCool [1k]: w +0.5kostuek [?]: b1 may lost the game for w. kind of funnyLice [4d]: b1 was goodNivCoan [2k]: g10 is a bad move for bothEGC2015a [-]: w 5 left to byoyomipancake [3d]: I think b1 should've been at G15WiteDragon [3k]: why g10 bad?YZ1509 [3d]: yes white underestimated the power of white m15noob1d [5d?]: W is winningpancake [3d]: It gives white the initiative in the last area that mattersLice [4d]: b1 was the last area that matteredMuttley [3k]: lol, noMuttley [3k]: the top is biggerasahin: doesnt top matters a bit ?noob1d [5d?]: l14 ?Lice [4d]: b can't get much on topNivCoan [2k]: it's just a bad exchange in my opinionLice [4d]: he already spent two moves there, and still its almost nothingasahin: not much might be enough ?Secil [6k?]: 1:02 vs 0:04 is timers?pancake [3d]: Just look at the difference between a white and a black move there Lice. It affects the top as well as the right sideLice [4d]: now white plays a15, and if b add's another move on top its still pretty much nothingpancake [3d]: the difference is quite huge jlm [1k]: G13 looks simple enoughjlm [1k]: F13bitzi [-]: s4 about 14pt?Warfreak2 [-]: shikshin, shikshin!MrVaga [1k]: it looks so jlmMrVaga [1k]: bitzi*oreo [1d?]: L14 ? oreo [1d?]: ;-)oreo [1d?]: i like B14];W[kf]C[theolddan [2d]: f15 looks at bb14 aji and e12 to activate d10 theolddan [2d]: buttheolddan [2d]: a15 w sente it seemsMrVaga [1k]: k15 special shikshin move ! Lice [4d]: don't like this movetheolddan [2d]: maybe b tries e12 firstpancake [3d]: B14 seems honestly annoyingLice [4d]: b14 is bad cause w wants to play a15theolddan [2d]: if w answers he might get away with b14Lice [4d]: and then there's a ko with b19Iniesta [2k]: w leads by how muxh ?YZ1509 [3d]: b slight lead now in my countoreo [1d?]: ah, sound is backoreo [1d?]: commentstheolddan [2d]: as long as w hasnt played a15 b has a slight option to  look at b14];B[dg]C[asahin: tesujiWiteDragon [3k]: ooh a review of this game just started :-)theolddan [2d]: especially if he thinks he is behindNivCoan [2k]: where?Lice [4d]: l14 was just a bad move..Iniesta [2k]: who is reviewing ?WiteDragon [3k]: http://egc2015.cz/streamasahin: l14 reduction ?WiteDragon [3k]: Li Cong 2pEGC2015a [-]: W in boyoymitheolddan [2d]: reduction of nothingtheolddan [2d]: we just analyzedIniesta [2k]: he is korean ?Feanor [1d]: there is some potential thereFeanor [1d]: "was", more likeFeanor [1d]: what would you play instead of l14?];W[ef]C[kostuek [?]: b l14 doesn't look like nothingoreo [1d?]: he said 3d ?gogonuts [4d]: final showdownfyn [4k]: li cong is 3pTrucmuch [2d]: f12 ?fyn [4k]: and chinese rather than koreanoreo [1d?]: by the sound of click he's using a pc ;-)WiteDragon [3k]: the stream site says 2ptheolddan [2d]: d13 seems less effective than e12lovebach [5d?]: after a15  B tenuki wb19 bc19 wa16  ba19 w b17 be19 double ko wa15 no sentetheolddan [2d]: but i dont knowprius: why is it that fan hui takes part in the playoffs and motoki doesnt?theolddan [2d]: now seems f12 is what b is aiming atMrVaga [1k]: Motoki is japanese];B[eg]C[MrVaga [1k]: Fan is french nowprius: and fan hui is chineseMrVaga [1k]: ;)Steuer09 [-]: fan is frenchprius: he doesnt look FrenchCez [4d]: by the way what are the tournament rules for this championshipsTrucmuch [2d]: he was chineseprius: but maybe it's meCez [4d]: you lose once and youre out ?WiteDragon [3k]: aga, you can see specs in rules of this game];W[fg]C[Feanor [1d]: of course it's you prius, you're a bad and boring hybrid carSteuer09 [-]: first 4 rounfs is double-koSteuer09 [-]: then 3 rounds kofyn [4k]: http://www.egc2015.cz/professionals says he's 3pprius: it must be metheolddan [2d]: w plays with confidenceWelvang [6d]: Jérôme Welvang [6d]: Salignonfyn [4k]: (li cong, in case the conversation moved on too far)MrVaga [1k]: what about him Welvng ?MrVaga [1k]: Welvang*ben0 [6d]: I love WelvangWelvang [6d]: I love himWelvang [6d]: In the sunshineWeishenme [4d]: c14Weishenme [4d]: only move :)jlm [1k]: If white wins e14 will be one of his highlight movesFeanor [1d]: a quick question: now that EGF gives pro ranks, how do eu pros increase their rank?kostuek [?]: moneyWiteDragon [3k]: i wonder too...Song17 [4d?]: c14 c13 ?TurtleDove [5k]: not a quick question ... nobody knows :)fyn [4k]: I wish I knew, but there doesn't seem to be too much information on thisWiteDragon [3k]: reviewer says o12 was wrong];B[ff]C[oreo [1d?]: nice commentsFabbo [7k?]: I hoped he would cutTen [?]: It's Ilya, what else would he doFeanor [1d]: ah, so I accidentally stumbled upon one of the great mysteries of the world... fascinating!ghaele [3d?]: big tournament whith several qualifications tour the 2 better a the end became proWiteDragon [3k]: lolJaguire [4k]: looking at b14EGC2015a [-]: White 1 period down,nly 2x60sjlm [1k]: C14 looks solid];W[cg];B[fh]C[Trucmuch [2d]: F12 dont work for w ? oOtheolddan [2d]: g13 a mustFeanor [1d]: it would let b b14 I thinkjlm [1k]: L14 works well with this atari];W[gg]C[theolddan [2d]: g12 also mustMuttley [3k]: is this a trade with the d11 aji?];B[ch]C[theolddan [2d]: but diesnt look good for bMuttley [3k]: or a ripoff attempt?];W[bg]C[EGC2015a [-]: ilja just shake his head and its look like he doesnt like positionLice [4d]: go ali!Fabbo [7k?]: cant he G12?theolddan [2d]: l14 is about to become useful ];B[gh];W[dh];B[eh];W[di]C[x0000 [-]: c12 b13 wasn't good it seemsjlm [1k]: C13 should of been c14?theolddan [2d]: what about b l13 now?MrVaga [1k]: I see black ahead...Song17 [4d?]: w sure seems to be leadingHKane [4d]: how much time does ilja have?theolddan [2d]: aiming at getting l15 sente to make some points therex0000 [-]: l13 is not making much sense right nowx0000 [-]: m15 sente for wMrVaga [1k]: black k15 ?theolddan [2d]: still some aji in l8 leftGogaren [2k]: why d12 and not e12?WiteDragon [3k]: yes! the pro says f17 was wrongtheolddan [2d]: related to the push at g10Fabbo [7k?]: ladder gogarenlxlx [-]: Ten, how many points does black need on the upper side to make the game even?jlm [1k]: L14 was maybe better than it first looked];B[kg]C[HKane [4d]: seems like b needs close to 20pts in top center to be aheadTen [?]: Wait, why is it suddenly me being asked?Muttley [3k]: I think b is ahead now];W[jg];B[jf]C[Muttley [3k]: b+3.5 I getEGC2015a [-]: secondroundofweekendtournament willstart in 15 minutesMuttley [3k]: depends so much on this yose herevaansama [2d?]: so no one is aheadvaansama [2d?]: :)x0000 [-]: I think w + around 5 is realistic now];W[hg]C[Ten [?]: "Depends on this yose" sounds a bit weird...Ten [?]: There must be certain expectations we can make to what will roughly happenMuttley [3k]: we can, but the players play their own movesTen [?]: That's the same as saying "if the players get it right", thenCBlue [?]: mhh, time to get up and watch the review by Li Cong 3p >_>Ten [?]: I'll bet on white, by the wayTen [?]: Black is too thinjlm [1k]: We are not strong enough as a group to anticipate the correct yoseKoukkaaja [-]: Is there live feed of the review?WiteDragon [3k]: http://egc2015.cz/streamMuttley [3k]: Hehe, I wouldn't presume to understand the best yose in general, let alone here, so "if they players get it right" is a bit strongRaduStefan [1d]: Hmm. I think what the 3k is trying to say is that we cannot compute that far. We can't estimate well enough what is going to happen. So we should simply bet. Secil [6k?]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAi-Ic5dB1cTen [?]: Suit yourselves :)noob1d [5d?]: counting is not predicting what will happenMuttley [3k]: Not really, what I'm saying is you can take your best shot, but if they players choose an opposite line, it goes out the window];B[hi]C[Ten [?]: Counting is exactly predicting what will happenWelvang [6d]: Rémi Campagniejlm [1k]: Suddenly f12 looks like a big burdennoob1d [5d?]: you tell what the position is nowMuttley [3k]: Exactly, TenMuttley [3k]: its the most concrete thing there isWelvang [6d]: Jean louis naddeftestgo1 [3k]: now w h12vaansama [2d?]: tanguy le calvéTen [?]: Black can expect 18-minus altogether on the upper side, it looks to me];W[hh]C[daniug [2d]: w succesfully saved his sstonesjlm [1k]: K12?];B[gj]C[testgo1 [3k]: k12Ten [?]: Might be less, white is really quite thick in the areaRaduStefan [1d]: I don't have the skill to count this board at this particular moment. But my coconuts are on white as well. snowy [1k]: really long gameMuttley [3k]: I'm not going to bet against Ten here];W[lg]C[Muttley [3k]: b got wasted at the top in the endlxlx [-]: Ten, thank you :-)Ten [?]: M8 is going to be white's sente at this rate, too...vaansama [2d?]: tentententententenTen [?]: I'm calling it a comfortable white winWiteDragon [3k]: review ended on the note that after f18 the game is very xloseTen [?]: Tedomari at s4Muttley [3k]: hehevaansama [2d?]: tenten oneMuttley [3k]: I could have told you that, WiteDragonMuttley [3k]: wait a minute- I did!Lice [4d]: m13 looks weirdSong17 [4d?]: why?Lice [4d]: k12 not better?Muttley [3k]: m13 prepares to give up the L14 stone and keep the connection safe to reduce furtherWiteDragon [3k]: :-)];B[if]C[Song17 [4d?]: why would it be better?WiteDragon [3k]: there's a reason your DVD's are so succesful];W[ne]C[Lice [4d]: cuz now b can get more territoryLice [4d]: i thinkMuttley [3k]: ko];B[nf];W[le]C[Lice [4d]: oh this is nice thoughLice [4d]: did not think of thattugkan [2d]: Resdaniug [2d]: w did it:D!Ten [?]: ...But nothing happened...Muttley [3k]: This is like watching Miao Xiachun's yoseMuttley [3k]: by whitecucaiduong [1k]: painful for B];B[me]C[Muttley [3k]: you have a big area and he just wanders through it, ignoring whatever you do to stop itSong17 [4d?]: w can take nowtuquedenne [4d]: by "tedomari", do you mean that S4 will be the last big yose, Ten?];W[kh]C[Ten [?]: Yeah, looks to meSyxok [2d]: would be funny if the euro champion was from a country with 40 players baseTen [?]: Will be a big drop in individual move value afterwardsRaduStefan [1d]: W+R now?wade [5d]: f1 also big yosetuquedenne [4d]: should beTen [?]: G1 is white's sente beforeLice [4d]: b tried to complicate at the left while w was under time pressure, and got wreckedTen [?]: As is m8Muttley [3k]: might be, I was just wondering whether black would resign at this pointCool [1k]: l16 ];B[ke]C[NorahJones [?]: k15 :D];W[oq];B[or]C[Secil [6k?]: Ilya hesitated for 20 seconds before putting L15Jaguire [4k]: m8Brouzouf [-]: watSong17 [4d?]: can take 2 stones..noob1d [5d?]: l12 should be k15 ];W[je];B[kd]C[Song17 [4d?]: but b will close his territory so doesn't seem so big];W[he];B[ie]C[snowy [1k]: T.T];W[ge]C[daniug [2d]: b loses 2 stones?tugkan [2d]: RapeWiteDragon [3k]: shame to see ilja butchered like thisrsg [5k]: How much time do they have left?Muttley [3k]: tugkan, please don't use comparisons like thatvaansama [2d?]: ali is not weak tooMuttley [3k]: thank youtugkan [2d]: So sorryEGC2015a [-]: W in boyoymi 2 periodsleftvaansama [2d?]: so...Muttley [3k]: no problemasahin: might beHashirama [1k]: Muttley can we say Grape instead?GoRoGoRo [11k?]: or shapeMuttley [3k]: if you pay me enoughMuttley [3k]: I'll give you "rope" for free though];B[fd]C[Koukkaaja [-]: Grape sounds like grexit];W[ll]C[Song17 [4d?]: b still has 30 min?];B[ml]C[Hashirama [1k]: i only have about 3.50];W[mk];B[jl]C[mnmn: your language has so many nice words for descriptions, surely you will find a good, fitting, nonoffensive oneasahin: grapes of wrath ?Lice [4d]: the sente is realz~!NorahJones [?]: W has sente all the timeSong17 [4d?]: h17 ?Song17 [4d?]: f1 ?Mitty [2k]: keep it sente ... till the endjlm [1k]: H17 and s4 are whitesTen [?]: Wait, is j18 a move];W[rp];B[rq]C[Song17 [4d?]: s4 also very bigasahin: easy to say];W[so]C[Ten [?]: Why yes it isasahin: game is getting out of control for b ?mnmn: j18 g19 then ?Muttley [3k]: nah, its  the consequence of fighting to winWiteDragon [3k]: i thiink mentally he resigned alreadyTen [?]: Then j16noob1d [5d?]: w+komimnmn: oh that works];B[pk]C[Song17 [4d?]: more than komi (look at the captured stones)Goser [12k]: lolSong17 [4d?]: but this is kind of cunningEGC2015a [-]: W lost second perionsnowy [1k]: dont think can turn this game over T.TEGC2015a [-]: periodEGC2015a [-]: only 1x60 leftsnowy [1k]: ORaduStefan [1d]: I hope Ali doesn't miss the O8 cutting pointasahin: b+t :)RyuuGan [?]: ty EGC2015aMuttley [3k]: That would be a terrible finish if w lost on timeSecil [6k?]: Timetesujiisnowy [1k]: so there's b+tsnowy [1k]: ;Dnoob1d [5d?]: pros don't lose by timeNorahJones [?]: W+10,5noob1d [5d?]: except on purposeMuttley [3k]: oh, they do sometimesjlm [1k]: Q8asahin: they do];W[pl]C[noob1d [5d?]: s9 Ten [?]: R8, methinksArtjom [3k]: Norah i'm waiting for your new album btwLice [4d]: r8 only movejlm [1k]: Or s9NorahJones [?]: :DCool [1k]: p9 Muttley [3k]: Do you have sleeping problems, Artjom?asahin: there are still people waiting for this ?noob1d [5d?]: aiming to cut, i seetuquedenne [4d]: and w has to play P9?Artjom [3k]: nopeFeanor [1d]: r8 s9 ?Song17 [4d?]: w can give some 5 points thereTen [?]: Maybe better to go for circus with s8Song17 [4d?]: so I think r8's not so scaryEGC2015a [-]: Ilja counting teritorySong17 [4d?]: plus - Ali has enough time to read it allTen [?]: Of course, nothing is scary for white hereTen [?]: The game is overSong17 [4d?]: while Ilya is thinking];B[ok]C[noob1d [5d?]: b can still winLice [4d]: O.Oasahin: yes he canTen [?]: By heart attacknoob1d [5d?]: o8 s9 Muttley [3k]: I'm still amazed it turned so sour for b so quickly];W[nl]C[asahin: its go for you];B[sq]C[Song17 [4d?]: when do you suppose it turned sour?wade [5d]: f17 probably losing movenoob1d [5d?]: b has time for this?];W[gs]C[Muttley [3k]: around the time b played f17 and took the cornerTen [?]: Kinda want to see j18 nextNivCoan [2k]: si ilya trying to hypnatize ali? noob1d [5d?]: f1 ];B[hs];W[fs]C[Song17 [4d?]: hehenoob1d [5d?]: wat];B[hr]C[NivCoan [2k]: he stopped nowTen [?]: F1 was 1/3 points better, yeah];W[hc]C[Tonight [3k?]: Nov mazal tovTonight [3k?]: Nivasahin: ouchTen [?]: Oh wait, nevermind, it wasn'tTen [?]: Tesuji at k1];B[ic];W[gc];B[gb]C[tuquedenne [4d]: he missed J18noob1d [5d?]: nice];W[lf]C[Feanor [1d]: k1 too sneakynoob1d [5d?]: well like this w wins for sureSong17 [4d?]: it was a ko, right?];B[rk]C[Muttley [3k]: considering I gave b 11 at top ages ago, I'll count that as a success for the Score MuttulatorNivCoan [2k]: thxlxlx [-]: Ali wants to go to lunch so no j18 today.];W[rl];B[qj];W[ql]C[noob1d [5d?]: go shikshin!];B[rh];W[rg]C[WiteDragon [3k]: that's some good counting indeedHellhuman [1d?]: go jabarin!noob1d [5d?]: q12 ];B[ph]C[noob1d [5d?]: goodMuttley [3k]: heh, thanksnoob1d [5d?]: b still has a chance i feelTen [?]: Meteor strike?WiteDragon [3k]: yesterday too with the 9x9 game :)Muttley [3k]: good luck with thatTen [?]: Earthquake, maybephx [7k?]: B+0,5 easyasahin: lolsnowy [1k]: omg 0.0noob1d [5d?]: ali realizing if he connects he loses? :^)snowy [1k]: where did b get all this points];W[kr];B[ls]C[WiteDragon [3k]: why?asahin: loosing threats ?Cool [1k]: timeSteuer09 [-]: timenoob1d [5d?]: time sujiasahin: yep loosing threats snowy [1k]: oFeanor [1d]: trading 1 threat for 1 minuteEGC2015a [-]: Ali counting territory];W[qg]C[snowy [1k]: ali facepalmCool [1k]: koSecil [6k?]: why didnt he take bottom groupnoob1d [5d?]: b will winReckless1 [3d]: game is so closeSecil [6k?]: M1 group?Secil [6k?]: I dont know anything about this game...zima [2k]: t11 asahin: what about it ?Secil [6k?]: why white didnt play at L1snowy [1k]: b is awesome o/ asahin: its the samenoob1d [5d?]: l1 o1 Eilinen [-]: Quite a gamelxlx [-]: I want to see Ali winning the KidoCup and EGC in 2015.Secil [6k?]: L1-O1-Q2asahin: why do you want that ?snowy [1k]: this game is lo0o0o0o0o0o0ongMuttley [3k]: b 63, w 70.5Lice [4d]: cuz ali pwnsSecil [6k?]: ah ok, i mss O4Secil [6k?]: soz:(Secil [6k?]: so tiredSong17 [4d?]: I tried offline and it ended by W+1.5Muttley [3k]: basically, w ahead by komi I think];B[id]C[Song17 [4d?]: but rather random endgameMuttley [3k]: did you include the komi?Cez [4d]: song17kostuek [?]: cnm, i have to leave soon :)Muttley [3k]: oh, n18 stonesCez [4d]: i did the same thing and ended up same hahaMuttley [3k]: still w +3.5 then];W[ld];B[lc]C[mnmn: i have w +2.5phx [7k?]: b+0,5 dudessnowy [1k]: no0o0o0o0o0asahin: b+.5snowy [1k]: b+1.5];W[ii]C[Muttley [3k]: nope, b can't win this by 0.5 :))noob1d [5d?]: unfortunately it seems w is winningsnowy [1k]: no0o0o0o0o0o0o];B[ji]C[RaduStefan [1d]: white a15 nextSong17 [4d?]: so it's closer than we thoughtnoob1d [5d?]: s10 will be bigwade [5d]: s10 any time soonRobertT [-]: I think either black or white winsSong17 [4d?]: but still a w win most likelyjlm [1k]: Muttley usually has the count right peopleMuttley [3k]: heheSyxok [2d]: are you guys counting with aga rules];W[jh];B[ij]C[rsun [4d]: a triple ko rematch is also possibleEGC2015a [-]: noNaphthalin [6k?]: aga rules make no differencesnowy [1k]: b+tTheThe [4k]: SE b+.5Song17 [4d?]: I just used the kgs view offlineMuttley [3k]: nope, I'm using Japanese countingSecil [6k?]: Comment said after F15 Black is betterSong17 [4d?]: and continued till the endEGC2015a [-]: in aga rules there can be no tripple kosnowy [1k]: b win b win says seMuttley [3k]: TheThe, you need to change the rule set if you use SESong17 [4d?]: I think now s10 is niceSong17 [4d?]: might be more than 1.5Fabbo [7k?]: whoever plays s10 will win, no?Muttley [3k]: a15 firstNaphthalin [6k?]: @TheThe: view locally, change rules to japanese];W[ae]C[Muttley [3k]: clone, change rules, SE if you want to use SELemuria [2d]: j12Song17 [4d?]: yup];B[ad]C[TheThe [4k]: thanks guys, didn't notice it's these pointless AGA rules again];W[ri]C[rsun [4d]: AGA rules ruleSyxok [2d]: you played too many bots rsunLice [4d]: the commentator on youtube missed b19 wTheThe [4k]: why does european turney use aga anywayLemuria [2d]: link please];B[rj]C[Lice [4d]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAi-Ic5dB1cNaphthalin [6k?]: EGC is sponsored by weiqi tv];W[sh]C[cucaiduong [1k]: looks w winasahin: s4 ?Naphthalin [6k?]: so maybe they want something usable which is equivalent to chinese scoringmanul [?]: they sould invent european rule set...Brouzouf [-]: yeah, it's not like there aren't enough rule sets, yetFeanor [1d]: chinese scoring sucksrsun [4d]: http://en.weiqitv.comasahin: they should make a rule to rule them all];B[sp];W[ro]C[Naphthalin [6k?]: you mean germany should make their own rules?TheThe [4k]: japanese rule are bestasahin: they already triedmanul [?]: in european rule set you count territory, stones and can argue in the parlament for few additional points %)Naphthalin [6k?]: @asahinkostuek [?]: japanese rules are nightmare];B[ih]C[notevenbad [-]: as long as we are in the unification section same ranking system worldwide would be nice];W[ig];B[ga];W[ea]C[Nam [?]: hi guysMogget [1d]: o1 p1 l1 o1 r1  ?rsun [4d]: japanese rules are not very comprehensiveFeanor [1d]: I like japanese rulesrsun [4d]: many holesWeishenme [4d]: W+8 or 9Nam [?]: who is winingasahin: best rule is no rulenoob1d [5d?]: japanese rules were the first i learned, so they must be the bestSecil [6k?]: W+6.5 with komi asahin: players throw stones to each otherNam [?]: nicedaniug [2d]: 7,5 i believetheolddan [2d]: not niceNam [?]: why?asahin: you cant do that on kgs];B[oh]C[snowy [1k]: who is the one reviewing on stream ? puro?];W[nj];B[oj];W[da];B[ca]C[noob1d [5d?]: the reviewer is 3p, but made a mistakeWiteDragon [3k]: Li Cong 2pnoob1d [5d?]: he misread in bottom leftasahin: e15WiteDragon [3k]: or 3pWiteDragon [3k]: what mistake?Nam [?]: who is stronger?Lice [4d]: he misread upper left also..noob1d [5d?]: he said w e1 would make ko];W[ep];B[fp]C[noob1d [5d?]: he missed b c1 i think];W[cs]C[WestEvil [5k]: w must die];B[sl];W[sm];B[sk]C[Mogget [1d]: Is o1 working working for white?asahin: a good w is a dead w ?snowy [1k]: b really lostrsun [4d]: e1 c1 b1 also kosnowy [1k]: this   is    realityNivCoan [2k]: it no noob1dFabbo [7k?]:  e11 senteUlasBelh [3k]: e15Fabbo [7k?]: for whiteNam [?]: hey muttleyNivCoan [2k]: he went over it before and it makes koMuttley [3k]: hiNam [?]: how are you lol];W[qa]C[NivCoan [2k]: more likely you missed something];B[nb]C[Cez [4d]: do i remember correctly that dame > than ko in aga ruleset?Naphthalin [6k?]: final onersun [4d]: yesjlm [1k]: T11 last ptNaphthalin [6k?]: when there is 1 dame left, dame can be bigger than korsun [4d]: you want to leave the ko and fill the last dameCez [4d]: rightnoob1d [5d?]: w+0,5asahin: arent you a rule specialist rsun ?];W[si]C[phx [7k?]: b+.5rsun [4d]: no, that is sumXylol [4k]: 2 dame and ko left means i go for the ko?asahin: oh rightrsun [4d]: sum is the ruleset expertSteuer09 [-]: sum is rules-professional =)Naphthalin [6k?]: everyone is expert on KGSasahin: he should right a bookkostuek [?]: we are all expertsSteuer09 [-]: he already wrote sveral booksnegesog [7k]: B+2.5asahin: on rulesMitty [2k]: w+Naphthalin [6k?]: about rulesets?Nam [?]: w got some ko?Xylol [4k]: asahin thats a good ideaSteuer09 [-]: no one wants to read them?rsun [4d]: he is the ruleset expert, but didn't write books on rulesetskolayn112 [1k]: b+11Cez [4d]: sum is not only a rules professional but stubborn cheaterXylol [4k]: all the go assosiations would buy oneNaphthalin [6k?]: cheater is 1pasahin: they totally wouldMuttley [3k]: Cez, that's not necessary, reallySong17 [4d?]: he beat Ali last yearXylol [4k]: Cez thats not fairSyxok [2d]: sum is not cheating anymoreasahin: e15 j18 and gg ?Song17 [4d?]: Robert JasiekCez [4d]: glad to hear that syxoksnowy [1k]: no0o0o0o0o0o0o0oSong17 [4d?]: in the weekend tourneyWiteDragon [3k]: seems l13 was the game losing movenoob1d [5d?]: final score will be w+2Xylol [4k]: knowing rules is cheating, hehe...Syxok [2d]: sum is also the only 5d egf who is 3d on kgsrsun [4d]: you mean by exploiting suicide in NZ rules?poiuyt: w + 2,5Xylol [4k]: rsun he is referring to csaba jasiek case, sensei has written about itXylol [4k]: or mero, sry.Song17 [4d?]: will be funny if all games in the finals will end with W+2.5rsun [4d]: even pros cheatMuttley [3k]: ok, all groups are safe, so now the yose can beginrsun [4d]: what can you expectXylol [4k]: rsun, really?rsun [4d]: yesasahin: like they had a stone in their bowlsXylol [4k]: Oo, any examples?negesog [7k]: B+2.5Alenchon [6k]: @Mutley, thank you, I was wondering when it woldrsun [4d]: iirc there was a pair go team who started to fill their own territory or somethingMuttley [3k]: you're welcome :)Xylol [4k]: W+27.75667Xylol [4k]: rsun thats pair go, its not that serious imhorsun [4d]: it was a tournamentAlife361 [2d?]: Mutt, please, fine one more deciding ko!Muttley [3k]: heheMuttley [3k]: a18!];B[ii]C[weiqidevil [-]: why is it cheating if you are filling your own territory?];W[ee]C[Alife361 [2d?]: Waw!Alife361 [2d?]: Hop they see it!kostuek [?]: everyone should cheatpoiuyt: its not a point extraXylol [4k]: kostuek nobody shouldMuttley [3k]: a6!! even better.poiuyt: after b e16Naphthalin [6k?]: NZ rules are like chinese but with suicide allowed?poiuyt: w must defendkmr [1d]: J11 was bad move, Ilya in time trouble?fyn [4k]: also a different ko rule, I thinkEGC2015a [-]: W+ResignLice [4d]: woooohooooofyn [4k]: there are two complicated ko rules, china has one and nz the otherTonight [3k?]: Go aliiiiXylol [4k]: http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/bascomp.htmlkostuek [?]: ggXylol [4k]: rule comparisonfyn [4k]: hurrah for aliLice [4d]: alialialiMuttley [3k]: excellent relay, thank you so much for your effortsXylol [4k]: ty EGCTonight [3k?]: Yala aliresusou: greatNaphthalin [6k?]: how is this W+Resign?daniug [2d]: ihaaa!fyn [4k]: thanks for the relayMuttley [3k]: Heck of a game :)Naphthalin [6k?]: ilya made a nuclear tesuji?Muttley [3k]: because Ilya can countLycheeDole [10k]: Thanks egc!TurtleDove [5k]: thx tooTonight [3k?]: Thank youEGC2015a [-]: Seeyouon final gameNaphthalin [6k?]: @muttley: yes, after counting xDshush [2d]: great game Jaguire [4k]: ali ftwAlife361 [2d?]: thanksshush [2d]: thank egcMuttley [3k]: exactlyNyanjilla [-]: Thanks for great relays!Naphthalin [6k?]: thx EGC for relaying the gamersun [4d]: in absolute time, you can fill your territory and hope to win on time, it's what they do on yahooNaphthalin [6k?]: *also wants to write bold*uolhdf: tx egcNyanjilla [-]: awwwwrsun [4d]: and even a few pros do thatNaphthalin [6k?]: play on yahoo? :DXylol [4k]: rsun, seems fairMuttley [3k]: Naphthalin.  King for a day!Muttley [3k]: ok, see you tomorrow in the final :)RobertT [-]: yahoo doesn't exist anymoreshush [2d]: Ali is the real kingEGC2015a [-]: bbXylol [4k]: it is a punishment for playing absolutweNaphthalin [6k?]: hm?flobby [-]: who won?Xylol [4k]: W+Resflobby [-]: thxSong17 [4d?]: chinese style resignXylol [4k]: you welcomeSong17 [4d?]: :Presusou: ali=lisy=liya>pop=corneljlm [1k]: What's up? Game over yet?Naphthalin [6k?]: yesNaphthalin [6k?]: b resignedNaphthalin [6k?]: i think w+4,5 hereNaphthalin [6k?]: after playing it outnegesog [7k]: I cont +2.5for bNaphthalin [6k?]: then count again negesog ;)Naphthalin [6k?]: and btw, using SE isn't counting])